
CoinDesk’s
Jennifer
Sanasie
interviewed
MoonPay
co-founder
and
CEO
Ivan
Soto-Wright
for
CoinDesk
TV’s
“First
Mover”
on
May
3,
to
discuss
MoonPay’s
recent
partnership
with
PayPal.
Here
is
the
full
transcript
of
the
interview.
Jennifer
Sanasie:
MoonPay
users
can
now
buy
crypto
via
PayPal
(PYPL).
The
new
partnership
means
that
users
in
the
US
can
seamlessly
purchase
crypto
with
PayPal
through
wallet
transfers,
bank
transfers
and
debit
card
transactions.
Now
the
cryptocurrency
buying
app
is
the
first
company
to
do
this
with
PayPal.
CEO
and
co
founder
Ivan
Soto
Wright
says
that
the
partnership
will
help
the
company
reach
more
customers.
So
how
is
this
going
to
enable
mainstream
adoption?
We
explore
that
now.
Ivan
Soto-Wright,
welcome
to
First
Mover.
Ivan
Soto-Wright:
Awesome,
thanks
for
having
me.
Jennifer
Sanasie:
Thanks
for
being
here.
Now
this
partnership
was
announced
this
week.
Let’s
start
at
the
basics,
lay
a
foundation
for
me.
How’s
this
gonna
work?
Ivan
Soto-Wright:
Yeah,
so
at
MoonPay,
we’re
trying
to
onboard
the
world
to
crypto.
And
so
for
us,
we’re
constantly
looking
at
new
payment
methods,
new
geographies
we
can
expand
into.
And
for
us,
PayPal
was
a
natural
fit.
426
million
customers
that
are
inside
of
PayPal
can
now
use
their
balances,
their
debit
cards
that
are
saved
on
the
platform,
and
frictionlessly
use
PayPal
inside
of
MoonPay
to
top
up
their
favorite
wallet.
Jennifer
Sanasie:
Now,
I
gotta
ask
you,
I
gotta
play
the
devil’s
advocate
here
and
I’m
doing
it
because
people
ask
me
this
all
the
time.
Does
the
world
wanna
be
onboarded
onto
crypto?
Talk
to
me
about
some
of
your
user
stories
and
the
future
that
you
envision.
Ivan
Soto-Wright:
Yeah,
well,
I
think
the
future
of
money
is
definitely
cryptocurrency.
I
think
that
eventually
we’re
going
to
see
a
place
very
similar
to
what
we’ve
seen
with
the
Internet.
So
the
Internet
really
brought
down
the
cost
of
communication.
We’re
now
using
voiceover
to
intero
and
a
protocol
to
communicate.
The
same
thing
will
happen
for
money
instead
of,
you
know,
all
these
legacy
infrastructure
systems
that
don’t
communicate
on
the
same
language.
We
can
now
move
to
a
system
built
on
Internet
built
by
blockchain
where
transaction
costs,
I
think,
will
eventually
tend
towards
zero.
We’re
in
the
early
phases
of
that.
It’s
kind
of
like
the
dial-up
days.
We’re
constantly
getting
faster.
We’re
getting
speedier.
We’re
going
to
reduce
those
cost
of
transactions.
But
our
job
is
really
just
to
lower
the
barriers
to
enable
people
to
participate.
Jennifer
Sanasie:
How
many
years
do
you
think
it’s
gonna
be
until
we
hit
that
adoption,
until
we
go
from
dial-up
days
to
5G?
Ivan
Soto-Wright:
I
mean,
it’s
already
really
impressive
some
of
the
innovation
that
you’ve
seen
on
some
of
these
Ethereum
blockchains,
these
layer
two
solutions.
We’ve
already
gotten
to
a
place
of
optimism
where
transaction
costs
and
gas
fees
are
near
zero.
And
we
also
have
new
layer
one
blockchains
that
are
coming
to
the
market.
You
know,
we
don’t
take
a
particular
take
on
one
blockchain
that’s
going
to
succeed.
We
have
a
view
that
there’s
going
to
be
multiple
blockchains.
And
really
it’s
around
what
are
the
use
cases
and
the
performance
that
we
see
as
a
result
of
the
technology.
Jennifer
Sanasie:
So
you’re
not
gonna
give
me
any
years,
no
predictions,
no
looking
into
the
crystal
ball.
Ivan
Soto-Wright:
I
think
it’s
followed
a
very
similar
trend
to
the
internet.
I
would
never
have
imagined
that
MoonPay
now
has
20
million
customers
on
the
platform.
It’s
only
been
five
years
since
we
started
the
business.
I
still
think
we’re
early
days
in
terms
of
the
overall
cycle.
I
look
at
market
cap
somewhat
as
a
proxy.
If
we
look
at
the
Bitcoin
market
cap
today,
gold
at
12
trillion,
Bitcoin
around
a
trillion,
we
still
have
a
long
way
to
go
in
terms
of
adoption
of
this
asset
class.
Jennifer
Sanasie:
Let’s
talk
about
those
20
million
customers.
I
know
that
there’s
a
story
on
coindesk.com.
You
spoke
to
us
for
the
launch
of
this
yesterday
and
you
outlined
some
challenges
that
customers
had,
particularly
when
they
were
trying
to
get
fiat
onto
the
platform
via
things
like
bank
cards.
Tell
me
a
little
bit
more
about
those
issues.
Ivan
Soto-Wright:
Yeah,
unfortunately,
you
know,
it
really
pains
me
as
the
co
-founder
of
the
service.
One
of
our
biggest
complaints
that
we
receive
is
sometimes
people
try
to
use
their
card
and
they
have
that
card
rejected
by
their
bank.
Now
we
can’t
really
do
much
about
that.
Some
banks
will
decide
to
decline
transactions
related
to
crypto.
You
know,
I
think
what
we
see
is
we
want
to
get
to
a
place
where
we
have
the
same
user
experience
that
we
have
in
traditional
fintech.
So
how
do
we
get
there?
We
partner
with
traditional
fintech
and
PayPal.
Used
by
over
426
million
people.
It’s
a
seamless
way
that
people
have
used
to
pay.
We’re
now
forming
a
partnership
with
legacy,
some
of
the
bigger
fintech
platforms
to
enable
that
same
user
experience
inside
this
cryptic
ecosystem.
Jennifer
Sanasie:
Have
you
attempted
to
form
partnerships
with
any
of
the
banks
or
have
conversations
with
the
banks
about
this?
I
know
it’s
not
just
a
MoonPay
problem,
it’s
a
problem
for
almost
every
platform
that
allows
people
to
buy
and
trade
crypto
in
the
United
States
and
Canada
where
I’m
from,
but
have
you
had
any
conversations
with
the
banks?
Ivan
Soto-Wright:
Yeah,
I
mean,
we’re
in
constant
contact
with
pretty
much
everyone
in
this
industry.
We’re
always
thinking
on
behalf
of
our
users,
how
do
we
provide
a
better
experience?
Some
banks
have
updated
their
policies,
some
banks
haven’t.
So
it
just
comes
down
to
their
appetite.
Kind
of
similar
to
what
you’re
seeing
in
the
ETF
world.
There’s
obviously
some
players
that
have
decided
to
not
participate
full
stop.
There’s
others
that
are
really
leaning
into
it
like
BlackRock.
So
I
think
a
very
similar
thing
has
taken
place
with
banks
and
their…willingness
to
work
inside
this
industry.
I
think
for
them,
the
challenge
is
there
are
some
risks
when
it
comes
to
cryptocurrency.
When
you
deliver
cryptocurrency
over
a
blockchain,
it’s
final.
So
there’s
no
way
to
reverse
that
transaction.
And
so
you
do
have
a
potential
increased
risk
for
fraud.
A
lot
of
the
work
that
we
do
at
MoonPay
is
to
really
build
the
best
fraud
models
to
determine
should
we
accept
or
reject
this
particular
customer
and
try
to
de
-risk
that
as
much
as
possible.
So
we
try
to
do
our
part.
Because
we
do
think
this
technology
is
the
future
and
we
think
that
over
time
that
appetite
will
change.
We
think
that
more
banks
will
recognize
that
this
is
an
important
industry
to
be
part
of
and
we’ll
need
tooling
like
MoonPay.
Jennifer
Sanasie:
You
mentioned
20
million
customers.
Talk
to
me
about
how
active
they
are
these
days.
And
the
reason
I
ask
you
that
is
because
it
felt
like
we
were
going
to
have
an
epic
year
in
crypto
in
January
when
the
ETFs
were
approved.
And
now
it’s
feeling
a
little
bit
weird
if
we
look
at
some
of
what’s
going
on
from
a
macro
perspective.
The
price
of
Bitcoin
is
down.
There
are
net
outflows
with
the
ETFs
now.
Talk
to
me
about
your
user
base.
Are
you
seeing
an
influx
of
new
users?
How
active
are
they?
Ivan
Soto-Wright:
Yeah,
we
actually
saw
a
43%
increase
in
activity
over
the
last
quarter.
So
we
had
our
best
quarter
in
our
five
-year
history
in
Q1
this
year.
And
that’s
given
the
backdrop
of
very
high
interest
rates.
Most
people
thought
that
if
interest
rates
were
going
to
persist
at
these
levels,
crypto
was
not
going
to
be
a
thing.
We’ve
actually
kind
of
seen
the
opposite.
I
think
a
lot
of
our
work
is
still
just
trying
to
improve
the
user
experience.
We
really
believe
that
if
we
get
the
user
experience
right,
people
will
start
to
opt
into
these
products
similar
to
how
people
start
to
opt
in
to
zoom
and
you
know
All
these
amazing
applications
that
are
built
on
voice
over
the
internet
protocol
We
think
the
same
thing
will
take
place
for
money
and
all
these
new
crypto
applications,
but
we’re
looking
at
a
long
period
of
time.
So
if
you
look
at
the
general
trend,
I
try
not
to
look
at
trends
within
a
year
or
six
months.
I
really
look
at
zooming
out,
look
at
the
long
term.
It’s
up
and
to
the
right.
There’s
more
developers
coming
into
the
ecosystem.
There’s
new
applications
that
are
being
built.
It
just
takes
time
for
this
ecosystem
to
flourish.
Jennifer
Sanasie:
You
know,
I
spoke
to
tech
journalist
Kara
Swisher
recently,
and
I
asked
her
if
she
thought
that
we
were
in
a
similar
phase
to
the
beginning
of
the
internet.
You
know,
she’s
been
around,
she’s
reported
quite
deeply
on
the
beginning
of
the
internet,
and
she
told
me
no,
she
thinks
that
this
sector
is
a
sector
that
will
be
around,
but
maybe
not
as
grand
as
us
who
work
in
the
industry
like
to
say
it
is.
Would
you
agree
with
that
sentiment,
or
what
do
you
think?
Ivan
Soto-Wright:
I
think
with
any
new
technology,
there’s
obviously
a
lot
of
hype.
You
go
through
a
hype
cycle
where
everyone
is
extremely
excited
about
all
the
promise
and
then
reality
sets
in.
And
when
it
comes
down
to
the
reality,
the
reality
for
crypto
today
is
the
user
experience
is
not
where
it
needs
to
be.
And
so
that’s
where
we’re
very
committed
to
our
mission
of
making
crypto
more
like
your
experience
with
your
fintech
than,
you
know,
I
think
traditional
crypto
companies
that,
you
know,
when
I
started,
there
wasn’t
even
graphical
user
interfaces
for
some
of
these
wallets.
Like
you
had
to
use
your
terminal.
It’s
gotten
markedly
better
and
I
think
the
experiences
will
continue
to
improve.
Jennifer
Sanasie:
Talk
to
me
a
little
bit
more
about
that
user
experience
because
I
think
everyone
agrees
that
the
user
experience
needs
to
get
better
and
we
have
great
web
two
apps
with
great
user
experiences.
Where
are
the
challenges?
What
are
the
issues
facing
developers
when
it
comes
to
creating
a
good
user
experience?
Because
we
know
what
a
good
user
experience
looks
like.
It
just
feels
like
we
can’t
really
get
it
right.
Ivan
Soto-Wright:
Yeah,
well,
I
think
from
our
side,
it’s
just
constant.
We
have
this
word
inside
of
MoonPay
called
Kaizen,
which
is
continuous
improvement.
It’s
these
1
%
incremental
improvements
that
you
make
every
single
day.
You
do
that
over
a
year,
and
that’s
a
3
,000
%
improvement.
So
we’re
constantly
learning
from
our
users.
The
reality
is
it
just
takes
time.
You
have
to
adapt
that
product.
You
have
to
get
that
feedback.
You
need
to
listen
to
your
customers.
And
obviously,
trying
to
solve
some
of
the
biggest
pain
points
for
them.
Like,
it’s
not
acceptable
if
you
have
a
high
decline
rate
because
you’re
getting
rejected
by
your
bank.
We
do
things
like
we
prompt
the
customer
based
on
the
six
digits
of
the
card
number.
We
could
tell
them,
hey,
you
could
try
another
payment
method.
Now
we
can
tell
them
to
try
PayPal.
Jennifer
Sanasie:
Talk
to
me
a
little
bit
about
the
partnership
with
PayPal.
What
was
that
journey
like?
Was
PayPal
on
board
from
the
get
-go?
Did
it
take
a
little
bit
of
convincing?
What
was
that,
I
don’t
wanna
call
it
the
dating
phase
like?
Ivan
Soto-Wright:
Well,
we’ve
always
had
huge
admiration
for
PayPal.
They’re
a
phenomenal
company.
They’ve
always
been
an
innovator.
Even
since
the
early
days,
I
remember
using
PayPal
on
eBay.
I
would
sell
things
in
my
garage
online.
That
was
the
first
time
I
received
money.
It
was
actually
through
my
PayPal
account.
I
see
us
as
kind
of
building
the
next
frontier.
In
the
same
way
that
you
use
PayPal
to
interact
with
the
world
of
e
-commerce,
you
can
use
MoonPay
to
interact
the
world
of
crypto
and
all
these
new
applications.
And
so
I
thought
it
was
a
natural
partnership.
I
thought
that
if
we
could
improve
the
conversion
rates
for
our
customers,
it
was
a
no
brainer.
And
so
we’ve
been
spending
a
lot
of
time
with
that
team
and
we’re
really
impressed.
They’ve
actually
really
leaned
into
crypto.
They’ve
been
proactive
in
trying
to
support
more
assets
on
their
platform.
They’ve
invested
heavily
in
their
stable
coin
initiative,
which
I
think
has
huge
promise.
I
think
we’re
in
the
early
days
of
stable
coins,
but
really
now
you
can
move
frictionlessly
money
across
many
different
geographies,
cross
border.
They
just
announced
a
partnership
with
zoom.
I
definitely
see
the
use
case
for
stablecoins
being
quite
strong.
We’re
in
the
early
days.
We’re
obviously
still
getting
to
regulatory
clarity
in
the
United
States
around
how
these
things
should
be
backed.
But
I
think
ultimately
they’re
going
to
be
an
important
part
of
our
financial
system.
Jennifer
Sanasie:
I
know
you
spoke
to
a
CoinDesk
reporter
and
said
it
took
some
time
to
get
PayPal
comfortable
with
the
relationship.
What
did
you
mean
there?
Ivan
Soto-Wright:
It
just
took
time
in
terms
of
any
major
integration.
You
just
have
to
go
through
a
process.
So
it’s
obviously
not
as
fast.
As
CEO,
I
want
everything
to
happen
yesterday.
And
so
it
just
takes
time
to
get
these
things
done.
But
eventually,
we
get
them
done.
Jennifer
Sanasie:
Now
you
are
known
at
MoonPay
for
the
big
mainstream
partnerships,
the
big
flashy
celebrity
partnerships.
I
know
late
last
year
there
was
a
MasterCard
partnership
announced.
Any
progress
there?
Ivan
Soto-Wright:
Yeah,
so
the
MasterCard
partnership
is
one
of
our
most
exciting
ones.
We
actually
did
something
very
cool
at
the
Arnold
Palmer
Golf
Invitational
very
recently,
where
they’re
starting
to
look
at
how
do
they
bring
priceless
experiences
to
their
customers.
Priceless
has
always
been
their
tagline
at
MasterCard.
And
so
what
they
did
is
they
did
a
bunch
of
really
cool
activations
at
the
event.
If
you
scanned,
you
know,
there
was
a
bunch
of
different
QR
codes
and
NFC
chips
inside
the
actual
event.
And
if
you
scan
them
or
you
interact
with
these
NFC
chips,
you
would
gain
collectibles.
And
some
of
those
collectibles
offered
you
tickets.
So
if
you
won’t
manage
to
find
all
these
collectibles
inside
the
actual
tournament,
you
would
get
offered
tickets
the
next
day.
So
it’s
thinking,
how
do
we
provide
better
experiences
to
our
customers?
It’s
not
necessarily,
oh,
I’m
getting
an
asset
because
I
believe
it’s
going
to
go
up
in
value.
It’s
an
asset
that
actually
has
utility.
Jennifer
Sanasie:
Any
other
big
partnerships
you
can
let
us
know
about?
Ivan
Soto-Wright:
We’ll
have
more
very
soon,
but
I
think
this
PayPal
one
is
the
one
that
we’re
super
concentrated
at
the
moment.
We
want
to
make
this
a
roaring
success.
We
want
as
many
of
our
users
to
take
it
up
and
actually
see
success
with
being
able
to
onboard.
It’s
great
for
us.
Also,
for
people
that
have
bank
payment
methods
that
they’d
like
to
use,
they
can
now
use
them
through
PayPal.
Jennifer
Sanasie:
Now,
I
gotta
ask
you,
everyone
who
works
in
this
industry
has
one
sector
of
it
that
they’re
very
excited
about,
one
that
they
watch
very
closely,
and
it’s
not
always
the
one
that
we
focus
on
in
our
everyday
job.
Is
there
a
sector
in
this
industry
that
you’re
really
excited
about
if
you
look
beyond
MoonPay
and
what
MoonPay
is
doing?
Ivan
Soto-Wright:
I
still
think
we’re
really
early
days
around
the
use
cases
for
NFTs.
I’m
still
quite
excited
about
the
promise
of
NFTs.
I
think
we’re
still
early
days
in
terms
of
how
we
think
about
programming
content
on
the
blockchain.
And
so
I
think
things
like
tickets
make
a
lot
of
sense
to
me.
I
think
the
ticketing
industry
today
has
a
lot
of
inefficiencies.
I
think
a
lot
of
them
could
be
solved
by
having
a
robust
system
that
I
think
will
be
built
on
blockchain.
I
also
think
gaming
assets,
I
think
inside
of
games,
a
lot
of
people
collect
these
digital
assets,
but
they’re
constrained
to
the
environments.
They’re
in
the
same
way
that
your
money,
in
a
lot
of
cases,
is
being
held
by
all
these
third
parties,
your
data,
your
property
that
you
have
inside
of
these
games
is
held
by
third
parties,
you
can
now
own
and
control
them
yourself.
And
I
think
that
will
be
the
future.
Jennifer
Sanasie:
You
and
I
are
excited
about
the
same
things
in
this
industry,
so
great
minds.
I’ve
been,
yeah,
of
course.
Thank
you
very
much
for
joining
me
today.
Ivan
Soto-Wright:
Appreciate
that.
Ivan
Soto-Wright:
Awesome.
Thanks,
Jen.