If
you’re
reading
this,
odds
are
you’ve
heard
the
cliche
that
“Crypto
Winter
is
the
time
for
building.”
It’s
almost
a
mantra
—
even
a
lifeline
—
for
those
who
believe
in
the
underlying
tech,
have
faith
that
the
markets
will
bounce
back,
and
are
focused
more
on
products
than
prices.
What’s
less
understood
is
that
“crypto
winter
is
the
time
for
investing.”
Or
at
least
it
is
for
the
ones
who
are
sticking
around,
such
as
the
deep
coffers
of
Andreessen
Horowitz
(a16z),
which
has
now
raised
over
$7
billion
of
capital
for
the
crypto
space,
according
to
General
Partner
Ali
Yahya.
Jeff
Wilser
is
a
book
author,
journalist,
ghostwriter,
and
the
host
of
the
“AI-Curious”
podcast.
“We’re
still
running
the
85-person
crypto
team,
and
we’re
100%
committed
on
crypto
as
a
space,”
says
Yahya,
who
brushes
off
concerns
that
Marc
Andreessen’s
recent
Techno-Optimist
Manifesto
did
not
specifically
mention
crypto.
(Yahya
explains
that
a16z’s
other
co-founder,
Ben
Horowitz,
is
the
one
who’s
more
crypto-focused.)
How
can
crypto
winter
lead
to
good
investments?
The
way
Yahya
sees
it,
if
you’re
a
founder
and
you’re
launching
in
a
bear
market,
that
means
you
believe.
You’re
not
here
for
a
cash
grab.
You
have
conviction.
“They
have
decided
to
bet
their
company,
or
even
their
career,
in
this
space,”
says
Yahya.
“Those
are
the
people
that
we
like
to
back.”
On
a
recent
Zoom
interview,
Yahya
appears
upbeat,
focused
and
fit.
And
by
“fit”
what
I
really
mean
is
ripped.
He’s
bald,
bearded,
and
wears
a
t-shirt
that
he
looks
ready
to
burst
out
of,
Incredible
Hulk-style.
There’s
even
a
sneaky
connection
to
fitness
and
investing.
“In
power
lifting,
you’re
essentially
maxing
out,
and
you
are
completely
stressing
your
body
all
the
way
to
its
limit,”
Yahya
says,
explaining
that
this
requires
discipline
and
focus,
and
that
spills
into
the
rest
of
his
life.
This
could
even
be
a
metaphor
for
crypto
winter.
“In
some
ways,
the
winter
filters
out
the
nonbelievers,
right?”
says
Yahya,
who
shares
what
he
looks
for
in
a
startup
team,
what
he
thinks
it
will
take
for
crypto
to
reach
true
mainstream
adoption,
his
advice
for
Web3
founders,
why
he
now
has
a
drive
to
“run
into
the
fire,
to
almost
seek
out
uncomfortable
experiences,
and
then
reframe
them.”
Interview
has
been
condensed
and
lightly
edited
for
clarity.
Dude,
you
look
fit.
We’re
immediately
changing
this
interview
to
your
fitness
regimen.
Ali
Yahya:
Laughs.
Thank
you,
I
really
appreciate
it.
I’m
training
for
this
competition
at
the
end
of
the
year.
Which
one?
It’s
a
power
lifting
competition
in
New
York,
the
Tone
House
Lift
Off.
This
could
be
a
stretch,
but
I’m
guessing
there’s
a
connection
between
the
discipline
in
your
fitness
training
and
the
discipline
required
for
smart
investing,
and
how
you
sharpen
your
mind.
Yeah,
absolutely.
So,
let’s
start
with
the
fitness.
What’s
your
routine
like?
Well,
I’ve
always
been
into
fitness,
but
most
recently,
I
really
got
into
this
idea
that
you
can
reframe
any
kind
of
discomfort.
So
much
of
discomfort
is
actually
in
the
mind.
You
can
reframe
it
to
actually
feel
like
it’s
constructive,
like
it’s
a
more
pleasant
or
pleasurable
feeling
than
it
really
is.
This
sounds
similar
to
the
Stoic
philosophy?
Yes,
it’s
very
much
inspired
by
Stoicism,
and
I
think
through
a
couple
of
very
intense
romantic
relationships
as
well,
a
couple
years
ago.
I
went
down
this
deep
rabbit
hole
about
how
to
process
pain
and
how
to
deal
with
suffering.
And
my
inclination
since
then
has
been
to
run
into
the
fire,
to
almost
seek
out
uncomfortable
experiences,
and
then
reframe
them.
And
as
a
result,
kind
of
reshape
the
relationship
that
I
have
with
pain.
One
of
the
big
challenges
in
a
bull
market
is
trying
to
get
at
the
true
motivations
of
the
founders
This
is
where
power
lifting
comes
in?
In
power
lifting,
you’re
essentially
maxing
out,
and
you
are
completely
stressing
your
body
all
the
way
to
its
limit.
So
that’s
a
direct
manifestation
of
that.
My
training
routine
is
basically
three
days
of
lifting
every
week,
with
a
trainer
who
absolutely
almost
kills
me.
I
come
out
of
it
feeling
like
I’m
a
new
man,
and
that
does
kind
of
set
the
tone
for
everything
else.
Because
now
anything
that
feels
uncomfortable
day-to-day,
that’s
just
a
fraction
of
the
way
you
feel
when
your
body’s
about
to
break.
It
creates
a
rhythm
that
keeps
me
disciplined
and
keeps
me
focused.
Okay
speaking
of
“pain,”
it’s
not
hard
to
see
the
parallel
for
the
last
year
or
so
in
crypto…
Yeah.
In
some
ways,
the
winter
filters
out
the
nonbelievers,
right?
The
people
who
are
not
fully
bought
in,
who
haven’t
fully
searched
their
souls
and
found
the
compelling
nature
of
Web3
sort
of
within
them.
So
as
a
result,
it’s
a
great
time
for
consolidation,
right?
For
the
folks
who
are
maybe
here
for
the
wrong
reasons
or
here
for
more
opportunistic
reasons,
to
go
and
pivot
to
something
else
like
AI.
There’s
a
lot
of
that!
And
then
the
people
who
are
actually
hardcore,
and
who
really
do
understand
why
the
technology
is
truly
valuable,
will
actually
build
the
foundation
for
the
next
generation
of
the
internet.
That
makes
sense
for
the
space
as
a
whole.
How
about
on
a
company
level?
For
individual
companies,
going
through
this
period
forces
a
certain
kind
of
discipline.
Now
you
have
to
rely
on
your
own
conviction
that
the
space
will
come
back,
right?
That
this
all
will
work.
I
think
it
tests
the
culture,
it
shapes
the
culture,
it
makes
it
stronger.
It
forges
it
into
something
that’s
likely
more
durable.
And
it’s
just
the
best
time
to
do
really
good
work.
Because
you’re
not
distracted
by
all
the
noise;
it’s
easy
to
just
be
heads-down
and
build.
And
then
also
from
an
investing
standpoint,
some
of
the
best
investments
are
made
in
the
troughs
right
off
winters
like
this.
How
would
you
describe
the
VC
landscape
for
crypto
and
Web3
right
now?
It’s
a
similar
dynamic,
where
many
“fair
weather”
VCs
have
pivoted
out
of
the
space.
And
now
they’re
chasing
the
next
hot
thing,
which
is
AI
at
the
moment.
So
only
a
small
number
of
investors
who
truly
get
the
space
—
and
who
have
been
in
it
for
a
very
long
time
—
remain.
For
us,
we’re
not
pivoting
out,
we’re
open
for
business.
There’s
little
competition
and
we’re
able
to
make
the
investments
we
want
to
make.
That’s
great
for
you
guys
at
a16z,
but
I’m
guessing
from
the
perspective
of
Web3
founders,
it’s
tougher,
right?
There’s
less
funding
supply
in
the
space
than
there
used
to
be?
There’s
less
dollars
to
go
around,
so
it’s
tougher
for
the
average
Web3
startup
to
get
funding?
Yes,
that’s
right.
It’s
a
less
ideal
time
to
raise
money
for
sure.
Fortunately,
a
lot
of
the
great
founders
and
great
companies
were
able
to
raise
money
and
capitalize
themselves
at
the
height
of
the
last
bull
market,
so
now
they
have
enough
dry
powder
to
weather
the
winter,
and
focus
on
building.
Are
you
still
deploying
capital
into
projects?
Yeah,
definitely.
It’s
not
as
fast
as
it
was
in
2021,
but
we’re
certainly
still
investing.
I
do
think
some
of
the
best
investments
may
come
from
times
like
this,
in
particular
when
we
invest
in
companies
that
are
starting
now.
Interesting.
Why’s
that?
For
founders
who
are
actively
choosing
to
start
a
crypto
or
Web3
company
now,
just
consider
what
that
says
about
them,
right?
The
fact
that
they
are
not
starting
an
AI
company,
they’re
starting
a
crypto
company
in
the
depth
of
winter,
that
means
that
they
must
really
believe.
That
means
they
have
fully
gone
down
the
rabbit
hole
and
understand
why
crypto
is
a
promising
space.
They
have
decided
to
bet
their
company,
or
even
their
career,
in
this
space.
Those
are
the
people
that
we
like
to
back.
So
we’re
very
much
on
the
lookout
for
those
people.
And
those
would
be
very
early-stage
companies.
Oftentimes
it
would
be
first
money
in,
and
so
it’s
a
small
amount
of
capital.
That’s
not
a
way
to
deploy
a
lot
of
capital
quickly,
but
again,
we
believe
that
those
might
actually
lead
to
some
of
the
best
investments
and
some
of
the
best
companies.
And
by
the
way,
this
kind
of
dovetails
with
what
we’re
doing
with
our
Crypto
Startup
School.
It’s
an
accelerator
program
that
targets
very
early-stage
companies;
we’re
going
to
run
this
next
one
in
London.
We
think
it’s
a
perfect
pairing
for
winter,
because
we
want
to
go
after
these
really
early-stage
companies
with
conviction.
How
is
evaluating
investments
in
a
bear
market
different
from
evaluating
them
in
a
bull
market?
One
of
the
big
challenges
in
a
bull
market
is
trying
to
get
at
the
true
motivations
of
the
founders.
And
so
in
a
bull
market,
it’s
very
important
to
ask
all
sorts
of
questions
to
get
at,
“Why
are
you
doing
this?”
It
could
be
very
opportunistic.
It
could
be
a
cash
grab.
It
could
be
because
it
seems
like
the
sexy
thing
to
do.
So
that’s
a
big
difference.
Another
difference
is
that
we
definitely
have
to
think
about
the
go-to-market
in
the
short
to
medium
term.
So
the
fact
that
these
companies
are
being
started
in
the
winter,
and
the
fact
that
the
winter
might
continue
for
a
long
time,
means
we
have
to
factor
that
in
our
decision
about
whether
or
not
to
invest.
So
if
the
success
of
the
company
depends
strongly
on,
you
know,
one
thousand
application
developers
to
arrive
fairly
quickly
and
start
building
on
top
of
whatever
infrastructure
they’re
building,
that’s
harder.
There’s
obviously
been
a
ton
of
attention
on
Marc
Andreessen’s
“The
Techno-Optimist
Manifesto.”
I
know
you
didn’t
personally
write
it,
but
how
does
the
ethos
of
this
manifesto
guide
the
way
you
view
investments?
And
then
as
a
follow-up,
should
the
crypto
space
be
worried
that
the
manifesto
didn’t
mention
crypto?
I’ll
take
the
second
part
first.
Not
at
all.
I
think
the
manifesto
is
intended
to
target
technology
more
broadly.
And
in
fact,
there
was
a
follow
up
podcast
with
Marc
and
Ben
Horowitz,
and
there’s
a
big
section
there
about
crypto
in
particular,
because
Ben
tends
to
spend
much
more
time
with
our
crypto
team
than
Marc.
So
I
think
it
was
less
top-of-mind
for
Marc
when
he
wrote
it.
How
big
is
the
crypto
team
by
the
way?
We’ve
raised
about
$7.5
billion
for
crypto,
and
we’re
still
running
the
85-person
crypto
team
and
we’re
100%
committed
on
crypto
as
a
space.
And
how
does
the
ethos
of
the
manifesto
guide
your
view
on
investments?
Well,
at
its
core,
startups
really
only
work
when
you
have
a
kind
of
optimism
about
the
future,
and
about
the
kinds
of
changes
that
you
can
make
in
the
world
through
technology.
So
I
think
both
from
the
lens
of
an
investor
and
the
lens
of
a
startup
founder,
you
have
to
have
some
sort
of
belief
in
the
positive
effect
that
technology
can
have.
We
want
to
invest
in
people
who
have
big
visions
for
the
future,
who
believe
that
the
future
can
be
much
better
than
it
is
today.
Like,
any
founder
who
believes
that
the
future
will
be
the
same
as
it
is
today
or
will
be
worse,
is
almost
by
definition
not
someone
that
we
could
back.
On
a
more
mundane
note,
how
does
regulation
fit
into
all
of
this?
I’ve
spoken
with
founders
who
are
so
confused
by
the
state
of
U.S.
regulation,
it
impacts
what
products
they
will
build.
Does
that
have
a
similar
impact
on
your
investment
analysis?
Yeah.
It’s
a
very
big
factor.
I
mean,
we
are
strong
believers
that
regulation
is
necessary
and
we
just
have
to
have
smart
regulation.
We’re
working
hard
at
trying
to
educate
people
in
Washington,
people
who
are
policymakers,
people
who
are
in
government
about
what
the
technology
is,
so
that
hopefully
we
end
up
with
sensible
regulation.
Another
thing
that
we
do
is
spend
a
lot
of
time
with
our
portfolio,
helping
them
navigate
the
regulatory
landscape
and
helping
them
think
strategically
about
the
risks
involved,
especially
when
there’s
a
lot
of
uncertainty.
You
have
to
basically
make
a
decision
as
to
what
risk
you’re
willing
to
take,
and
you
need
really
smart
legal
people
around
the
table
to
make
those
decisions.
So
we
often
play
that
role
and
we
help
our
founders
make
hard
choices
when
the
law
is
really
not
clear.
What
advice
would
you
give
Web3
founders
who
are
building?
I
know
the
party
line
is
to
“build,
build,
build,”
but
on
top
of
that,
for
those
hoping
to
get
funding
at
some
point,
what
advice
would
you
give?
So
it
depends
strongly
on
the
stage.
For
very
early-stage,
it
ultimately
comes
down
to
the
team
that
you’re
able
to
bring
together.
Because
we
primarily
invest
in
people
that
very
early
stage.
That’s
by
far
the
dominant
factor.
And
later
stage?
It’s
always
good
to
be
able
to
show
some
kind
of
product-market
fit.
So
that
the
thing
that
you
have
built
is
now
being
pulled
out
from
you,
from
the
company
by
the
market,
by
your
users,
your
customers,
developers,
whoever
it
may
be.
And
really
what
you
now
have
to
do
is
just
go
faster
because
they
cannot
get
it
fast
enough.
And
what
you
need
is
to
kind
of
pour
fuel
on
the
fire
to
be
able
to
go
faster
and
meet
the
demand
of
the
market
more
quickly.
Last
question,
and
this
goes
back
to
our
theme
of
optimism.
What
does
your
gut
tell
you
will
be
the
eventual
driver
of
mainstream
Web3
adoption?
It’s
a
really
good
question.
We
can’t
just
keep
talking
about
why
crypto
is
valuable.
I
think
what
will
have
to
happen
is
that
someone
builds
an
application
that
drives
real
value,
that
ends
up
reaching
100
million
users
or
more.
And
I
think
this
could
happen
in
a
number
of
different
categories.
It
could
be
a
company
like
Farcaster,
which
is
building
a
decentralized
social
network
that’s
somewhat
like
Twitter,
where
the
user
controls
their
own
identity
and
controls
who
they
can
follow
and
who
follows
them.
Something
like
that
could
reach
100
million
users.
And
that
would
be
a
very
strong
statement
for
why
blockchains
are
powerful,
especially
given
what’s
going
on
with
Twitter
now.
It
could
also
be
a
game,
like
a
crypto-enabled
game
that
has
a
full-on
crypto
economy
that’s
interoperable
with
the
economies
of
other
games,
where
you
can
own
your
character.
There
are
many
games
that
are
in
the
works.
It
just
takes
a
long
time
to
build
a
game.
So
that
could
be
one.
What
else?
It
could
also
be
something
like
sound.xyz
where
you
have
a
decentralized
music
streaming
platform,
where
artists
can
connect
with
their
fans
directly.
Like
where
you
can
essentially
buy
an
NFT
to
be
able
to
comment
on
the
artist’s
track
on
the
interface,
in
the
way
that
you
could
with
SoundCloud
back
in
the
day.
It’s
a
super
simple
thing,
but
it’s
a
way
of
creating
a
community
that
has
this
financial
element
to
it,
such
that
now
artists
can
have
an
economic
relationship
with
their
fans,
right?
That
is
direct.
There
are
no
intermediaries,
no
labels.
Spotify
doesn’t
take
a
huge
cut.
So
if
a
number
of
really
major
artists
go
through
that
process
and
are
able
to
monetize
their
music
in
a
way
that
becomes
very
public,
then
I
could
see
that
being
a
watershed
moment
where
it’s
like,
holy
shit,
this
is
just
a
better
model
for
creative
people
to
monetize
their
work.
So
that
could
be
another
way.
Those
are
maybe
three
possibilities,
but
I
think
one
of
them
at
some
point
has
to
really
break
out
in
order
for
crypto
to
really
get
to
the
next
level.
Love
the
optimism.
Thanks
again,
and
good
luck
with
the
power
lifting
competition.